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On 01/14/2013 03:41 PM, Jeffrey Johnson wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D1CCE8A6-FD5A-471E-918B-7E839FB5FAE9@mac.com"
type="cite"><br>
<div><br>
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;
color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>From: </b></span><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Jeffrey
Johnson <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:n3npq@me.com">n3npq@me.com</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;
color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re:
Smart 1.4.1 Usage in Fedora 17</b><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;
color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Date: </b></span><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">January
13, 2013 11:40:35 PM EST<br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;
color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>To: </b></span><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Mark
Hatle <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mark.hatle@windriver.com">mark.hatle@windriver.com</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;
color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Cc: </b></span><span
style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:smart@lists.labix.org">smart@lists.labix.org</a><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div><br>
On Jan 13, 2013, at 6:48 PM, Mark Hatle wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">On 1/13/13 3:25 PM, Stephen Morris
wrote:<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Hi,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"> Having moved from Mandriva
2011 to Fedora 17 as the closest distro<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">I can find to Red Hat 6 which we
are using at work, I am trying to use<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Smart 1.4.1. Ignoring a problem
that I was getting under Mandriva that<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">is also occurring randomly on
Fedora as well, I am trying to get Smart<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">to use the Yum functionality of
using delta rpms where possible for<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">updates. The impression I get at
the moment is that when Smart downloads<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">the rpms it is downloading full
rpms rather than deltas, if that is not<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">correct how do I get Smart to
provide the same messages as Yum does in<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">terms of downloading the deltas
and informing the user that it is using<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">the delta to rebuild the rpm? I am
using Smart 1.4.1 downloaded from<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">your site as Fedora 17 only
provides Smart 1.3.1 in their repositories,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">and if I remember correctly Smart
1.3.1 doesn't provide support for<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">mirror lists which I am using in
conjunction with base urls.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">As far as I know, Smart does not
support deltarpms at this point. I'd love it if someone
has implemented it though...<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Delatapms explode entire *.rpm packages in order to do
delatfication<br>
with minimal entropy (and maximum bandwidth reduction from
deltafication).<br>
<br>
The cost of reconstructing a *.rpm from the bits-and-pieces
(including recompression)<br>
is CPU intensive on the client.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
So far for me this is not an issue. I'm running an AMD FX 8350 4 GHz
8 core cpu which seems to be able to handle everything I've done so
far with minimal effort.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D1CCE8A6-FD5A-471E-918B-7E839FB5FAE9@mac.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><br>
There is also the combinatorial failure keeping track of all
possible "upgrade" starting<br>
points.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
From what I have seen so far there seems to be only 1 delta version
kept for updates, and if the version that is installed doesn't match
the version the delta is designed to update then yum downloads the
full rpm as an update, either that or Fedora packages programs that
need to be installed (maybe as a result of dependencies) in the
updates repository rather than their base repository. But either
way, given that I have a download limit on my plan, if I can't get
the packages from my isp (because they are older than what is
available via the mirror list) which are free, then I want to
minimise as much as possible the bandwidth used to download the
packages, so from my perspective deltas are ideal.<br>
<br>
regards,<br>
Steve<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:D1CCE8A6-FD5A-471E-918B-7E839FB5FAE9@mac.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><br>
Short answer:<br>
<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Delatrpms
are the wrong implementation.<br>
<br>
Instead: Use --rsyncable to generate *.rpm and then rsync
across the wire for most<br>
of the gain without the client CPU cost (from
recompressing), and the server side<br>
combinatorial explosion attempting to maintain all possible
deltas for "upgrade".<br>
<br>
Disclaimer:<br>
<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Yes
I have a minority/contrarian opinion. And you won't be happy
testing<br>
<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>bandwidth
reduction UNLESS both sides are --rsyncable (and @rpm.org
using<br>
<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>system
zlib and/or xz payload compression is most definitely not
--rsyncable).<br>
<br>
hth<br>
<br>
73 de Jeff<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">--Mark<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">regards,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Steve<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
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