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    On 01/14/2013 03:41 PM, Jeffrey Johnson wrote:<br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:D1CCE8A6-FD5A-471E-918B-7E839FB5FAE9@mac.com"
      type="cite"><br>
      <div><br>
        <div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
        <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
        <blockquote type="cite">
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              style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;
              color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>From: </b></span><span
              style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Jeffrey
              Johnson <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:n3npq@me.com">n3npq@me.com</a>><br>
            </span></div>
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              style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;
              color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span
              style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re:
                Smart 1.4.1 Usage in Fedora 17</b><br>
            </span></div>
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              style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;
              color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Date: </b></span><span
              style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">January
              13, 2013 11:40:35 PM EST<br>
            </span></div>
          <div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
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              style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;
              color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>To: </b></span><span
              style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Mark
              Hatle <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:mark.hatle@windriver.com">mark.hatle@windriver.com</a>><br>
            </span></div>
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              style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;
              color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Cc: </b></span><span
              style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:smart@lists.labix.org">smart@lists.labix.org</a><br>
            </span></div>
          <br>
          <div><br>
            On Jan 13, 2013, at 6:48 PM, Mark Hatle wrote:<br>
            <br>
            <blockquote type="cite">On 1/13/13 3:25 PM, Stephen Morris
              wrote:<br>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <blockquote type="cite">Hi,<br>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <blockquote type="cite">     Having moved from Mandriva
                2011 to Fedora 17 as the closest distro<br>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <blockquote type="cite">I can find to Red Hat 6 which we
                are using at work, I am trying to use<br>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <blockquote type="cite">Smart 1.4.1. Ignoring a problem
                that I was getting under Mandriva that<br>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <blockquote type="cite">is also occurring randomly on
                Fedora as well, I am trying to get Smart<br>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <blockquote type="cite">to use the Yum functionality of
                using delta rpms where possible for<br>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <blockquote type="cite">updates. The impression I get at
                the moment is that when Smart downloads<br>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <blockquote type="cite">the rpms it is downloading full
                rpms rather than deltas, if that is not<br>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <blockquote type="cite">correct how do I get Smart to
                provide the same messages as Yum does in<br>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <blockquote type="cite">terms of downloading the deltas
                and informing the user that it is using<br>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <blockquote type="cite">the delta to rebuild the rpm? I am
                using Smart 1.4.1 downloaded from<br>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <blockquote type="cite">your site as Fedora 17 only
                provides Smart 1.3.1 in their repositories,<br>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <blockquote type="cite">and if I remember correctly Smart
                1.3.1 doesn't provide support for<br>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <blockquote type="cite">mirror lists which I am using in
                conjunction with base urls.<br>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite"><br>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">As far as I know, Smart does not
              support deltarpms at this point.  I'd love it if someone
              has implemented it though...<br>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite"><br>
            </blockquote>
            <br>
            Delatapms explode entire *.rpm packages in order to do
            delatfication<br>
            with minimal entropy (and maximum bandwidth reduction from
            deltafication).<br>
            <br>
            The cost of reconstructing a *.rpm from the bits-and-pieces
            (including recompression)<br>
            is CPU intensive on the client.<br>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    So far for me this is not an issue. I'm running an AMD FX 8350 4 GHz
    8 core cpu which seems to be able to handle everything I've done so
    far with minimal effort.<br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:D1CCE8A6-FD5A-471E-918B-7E839FB5FAE9@mac.com"
      type="cite">
      <div>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <div><br>
            There is also the combinatorial failure keeping track of all
            possible "upgrade" starting<br>
            points.<br>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    From what I have seen so far there seems to be only 1 delta version
    kept for updates, and if the version that is installed doesn't match
    the version the delta is designed to update then yum downloads the
    full rpm as an update, either that or Fedora packages programs that
    need to be installed (maybe as a result of dependencies) in the
    updates repository rather than their base repository. But either
    way, given that I have a download limit on my plan, if I can't get
    the packages from my isp (because they are older than what is
    available via the mirror list) which are free, then I want to
    minimise as much as possible the bandwidth used to download the
    packages, so from my perspective deltas are ideal.<br>
    <br>
    regards,<br>
    Steve<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:D1CCE8A6-FD5A-471E-918B-7E839FB5FAE9@mac.com"
      type="cite">
      <div>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <div><br>
            Short answer:<br>
            <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Delatrpms
            are the wrong implementation.<br>
            <br>
            Instead: Use --rsyncable to generate *.rpm and then rsync
            across the wire for most<br>
            of the gain without the client CPU cost (from
            recompressing), and the server side<br>
            combinatorial explosion attempting to maintain all possible
            deltas for "upgrade".<br>
            <br>
            Disclaimer:<br>
            <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Yes
            I have a minority/contrarian opinion. And you won't be happy
            testing<br>
            <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>bandwidth
            reduction UNLESS both sides are --rsyncable (and @rpm.org
            using<br>
            <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>system
            zlib and/or xz payload compression is most definitely not
            --rsyncable).<br>
            <br>
            hth<br>
            <br>
            73 de Jeff<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <blockquote type="cite">--Mark<br>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite"><br>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <blockquote type="cite">regards,<br>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <blockquote type="cite">Steve<br>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <blockquote type="cite"><br>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <blockquote type="cite"><br>
            </blockquote>
            <br>
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